testkumah

Sunday, August 19, 2007

Christian Jews - Scary Stuff

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posted by Pinchas @ 5:38 AM  

17 Comments:

  • At August 19, 2007 at 7:12 AM , Anonymous Bill said...

    What's scary about it? Do you not believe in freedom of religion? Do you wish Israel to become a Saudi Arabia?

     

  • At August 19, 2007 at 7:25 AM , Anonymous Malkah said...

    Shalom Bill,

    I think what's scary is that Jewish people have become Christian, and live amongst us as regular Israelis.

    Aside from that, try to keep in mind that we are dealing with Israel. NOT America. Freedom of religion isn't a universal value, it's an American constitutional right that stems from a broader concept of tolerance and liberty. Israel is very open. But that doesn't mean it isn't a Jewish State, and that it shouldn't be even MORE Jewish.

    The standard "do you want Israel to turn into Saudi Arabia" argument is hyperbolic and disregards the essence of Jewish people. We are not Arabs/Muslims, and we're not going to turn into them. I don't think anyone here 'wishes Israel to become Saudia Arabia'. I think we want Israel to maintain a strong Jewish identity, and dislike trends to the contrary. At least I do.

     

  • At August 19, 2007 at 7:39 AM , Anonymous Bill said...

    Malkah,

    It seems to me as the people in the video think of themselves as Jewish. The Orthodox don't see Reform Jews as Jewish. They don't see Jews who believe in Jesus (who was Jewish) as their personal Messiah as Jewish.

    My thinking is...if you think you have a good "product" spiritual or otherwise....and you keep that product off the 'market'...eventually your product will fail.

    For the life of me I have no idea why Judaism doesn't get the gonads to market itself as a way to live a better life.

    I know the history behind it all, but this failure is ethically inexcusable.

    Christians believe Christianity offers a better life, so they spread it. Jews don't...so is it any wonder Jews in Israel are going with the more confident spiritual enterprise?

     

  • At August 19, 2007 at 8:20 AM , Anonymous Malkah said...

    Shalom Bill,

    Christian missionaries prey on weak, needy people. Kind of like the nation of Amalek did when we were in the desert on our way to the Land of Israel.

    In the story of the Amalekite attack on the Israelites, as we were trekking, they fell upon the weak and old who were in the back of the convoy, and killed them. Of course, the first criticism goes to the Jews - why were our weak and elderly left to walk in the back? We should've made them a much higher priority, protected them, ensconsed them. However, the eternal wrath lies with Amalek for performing such an attack - we are commanded to destroy them and their memory from the face of the earth - pretty strong language.

    As the case is in Israel, the obvious criticism goes to the Jewish people/establishment/government - we should be investing much more in the spiritual strength of our brothers and sisters, and not enabling a vacuum to be filled by travelling salesmen hawking free salvation at the hands of their demi-god.

    But missionaries should be targeted much more severely by Israeli law (which forbids Christian missionizing, punishable by deportment, fines, etc), with the Christianization of Jews in Israel seen as a shameful blight on our society. The audacity of people coming to the home of the Jewish people in order to turn them away from Judaism!

    I appreciate the reference to modern consumer culture - I believe this is exactly the level to which our Christian Jews have sunken in order to determine which religion to choose - cheap, easy, and self-cleaning! But it turns missionaries into innocent marketers, when what they are is much more sinister and methodical, people whom we should thwart unequivocally.

     

  • At August 19, 2007 at 3:16 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

    THE ORTHODOX IS WHO IS SCARY, "KIDNAP CHILDREN AND BAPTISH THEM"...INDEED

     

  • At August 20, 2007 at 5:47 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Scary?? I saw nothing "scary" in that video. In fact, I think you have accidentally stumbled upon an evangelistic tool! Thanks for the plug!

     

  • At August 20, 2007 at 11:28 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

    This is scary and sad on both sides of the coin. Saying they are stealing babies will only harden many hearts to the truth of the situation. The truth is that the waters of Judaism continue to be diluted world-wide but to have them become even more diluted in Israel should not be accepted.

     

  • At August 20, 2007 at 11:55 AM , Anonymous The Anchorite said...

    Scary? no, just very very sad.
    It's sad that Jews, living in Israel, are so turned off, or never exposed to, their own beautifull religion.
    I think the growth of such messianic communities should be taken as a criticism of all Jews, who are so busy alienating each other over silly political and pseudo religious issues, that they project badly on themselves and their religion. It's easy to see why a spiritually searching person might be attracted to these "messianics", there is no hate, dogma, or pressure. something that unfortunately cannot be said for most "kiruv" organizations

     

  • At August 20, 2007 at 9:05 PM , Anonymous Jesus said...

    Malka,

    Please pardon the defensiveness in which we have spoken. I too believe that Yeshua is the Messiah. However I do understand your feeling of how scary it might be to be over run or feel pressured by a group of people that could "destroy" your faith. We do not seek to destroy your faith in anyway possible. We do however seek to embrace it, preserve it and for you to teach us what we do not comprehend as the chosen of H-shem that you are. We have seen the miracles of this man that came from your people and did most of every prophecy written that the Chosen one would do. The miracles and prophecies that were fulfilled by Him are in the hundreds. Those that were not revealed were explained by him and later understood to be done in the end days. It is evident we are in those times and we believe like you that He will be seen soon. The biggest reason we stand strong and head high about our savior and L-rd (since we believe He is one, as in the beginning it is said: "let US make man in OUR image") is because more than 500 people witnessed his resurrection. With out this He would be called a liar. This is not a small event. This does not include the most amazing one which was the salvation he allowed gentiles to have through the sacrifice of His Chosen one. The ultimate sacrifice. This is why we can be saved. Otherwise we would have no merit to such thing. What I struggle to understand is how today there are a few that call themselves the messiah with no care of scripture to back them and are not reproached, not scoffed nor condemned. I have heard them on shows on INR. Why then are believers in Yeshua frowned on because of their beliefs in who the Messiah is with so much evidence to the dispute? Yeshua never taught to kill those who did not believe His teachings. So are we to be labeled for those who did do such crimes for political gain, revenge or hatred using His name for their purpose because it became popular at the time to believe in Him (or claim to)? Not that this could not happen. Sadly it still does! However it should be understood then who is who. Those who stand by Israel and those who don't. Know that I am a Lover of Zion and stand with her in Battle against those who seek her destruction.

    Blessings,

    Guario

     

  • At August 22, 2007 at 12:55 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Malkah,

    I totally agree with you.

    It's so in the nature of oh so many xians to convert people whom aren't recognizing gsus etc. Especially Jews are so interesting to convert.

    Blegh.. I will point at my Mezuza and tell those Yehova's: you see this, it means: not interested! I'm talking about xians in general now.

    Personally I think the so called "messianic jews" are most dangerous. They pretend to be Jews (which they aren't, the moment they "accept" gsus) and meanwhile try to lure Jews into their traps.

    DISGUSTING!!!!!

     

  • At August 24, 2007 at 11:35 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

    That is great to see so many Jews coming to their own faith in their own messiah.

    I hope for many more and more on this forum.

    Read the scriptures for yourself not what your rabbis and antimissionaries have to say.

    There is why people believe in him.

    I personally seek to share the Gospel with Jews first then to Gentiles just because it belongs to them first.

    Bless the Jews with the knowing and understanding of their Messiah who has reached the Gentile world.

     

  • At August 25, 2007 at 12:11 PM , Anonymous Pinchas said...

    If Messiah's here then where is our temple 3.0?

    Only dimwitted fools think Messaih can't get the job done the first time around.

    But we shouldn't make fun of your intelligence. You were born that way.

     

  • At August 25, 2007 at 8:22 PM , Anonymous truth now said...

    we need a massive education campaign to destroy the christian lies that have captured these jewish people.
    1)christianity is idolatry
    2) their guy was NOT the messiah.
    3)torah and judaism has all the love, compassion and kindness one needs.
    4)the founder of christianity said terrible things about the jews: he castigated the sages/chazal; he said that the jews were the "children of the devil"(see book of john); and did not argue when people called him god.
    5)the only reason these jews got captured is lack of information from jews and crafty manipulation from christians.
    6)the religious jews in the gov't along with seculars who understand must pass strong laws against missionizing and for re-education programs to bring these jews back.
    7)missionary organizations must be banned and kicked out of the country and kept off the airwaves.

    8)as you can see, if we are not pro-active, these liars and falsifiers will continue their crafty and evil work.

     

  • At October 11, 2007 at 9:24 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

    What is Lashon Hara? Sorry I am a poor Jew and may not understand it.

     

  • At November 1, 2007 at 6:51 AM , Anonymous Lior said...

    Writing as I am from London, where the "born again" Evangelical Christian movements are on the rise but nowhere near as influential or as successful as they are in America, typifies the closeness of American Evangelical Protestantism with Zionism and its influence on Jews worldwide. If, just perhaps, Israelis were less influenced by American culture, they would not fall victim to this insidious and unpleasant propaganda emanating from movements such as the Jews for Jesus.

    Don't get me wrong: the Jews for Jesus are very active in London and Evangelical Christian missionaries are hard at work converting Jews on our university campuses... and roll up at Jewish events as well. I challenged a group of them at last year's Simcha on the Square (Trafalgar Sqaure) and yet it was I who was challenged by Community Security Trust. They didn't see my point that if all the Jews attending the event were converted, there wouldn't be another Simcha the following year because they'd all be in church, instead.

    What also frustrates is that these Jews are merely pawns in an increasingly fundamentalist drive to convert Jews in order to bring on the "End Times" and ignorant of Jewish eschatology, they not only support aliyah but believe that at what they call the Second Coming (it is no such thing, Christian theology talking of the Parousia, or "manifestation" of Christ), all Jews will be converted to the "true faith".

    Israeli politicians must get out of bed with these Christians. American pro-Israel politicians must stop relying upon the Christian vote. The Jerusalem Post must stop publishing its "Christian" edition. Greater access to Orthodoxy must be made available to Reform Jews in mixed marriages who see Messianic Judaism as a way of solving what are insurmountable obstacles to domestic harmony.

    As with so many things, Jews must put themselves first, put their concepts of "ethical" behaviour on the back burner and get the message over to these Christians that their attentions are unwelcome. And the Israeli government must prosecute missionaries.

    Christianity has only just stopped persecuting Jews. They must be told to eat humble pie - and show some of the humility for their past wrongdoing.

    Missionary activity must cease.

     

  • At March 12, 2008 at 11:06 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

    The Chabad Lubovitchers have centers in every/nearly every major city in Israel, and is it not a common position that the Rebbe is the Messiah? The Breslovers maintain that Rebbe Nachman was the messiah of his era...yet Jews having a belief in Yeshua as the Messiah is terrifying. If there was a sect that came out of Yerushalayim that had long beards and wore antiquated Polish Ghetto clothes, had Payot down to their knees and claimed that Leonard Nimoy was the long awaited messiah...they might be considered eccentric or even crazy...but after all...still Yehudim. Apparently looking the part is more important in today's Judaism. The messianics are kosher, they study Torah, they observe the moedim and the sabbath, they are certainly more observant than most seculars...and they shed blood and bleed for Israel....yes, you are right...utterly horrifying.

     

  • At October 28, 2008 at 4:07 PM , Anonymous Roman said...

    Their services look like evangelical christian services.

     

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